I just watched ep4 and didn't really understand all this talk about ranks and limiting.
if the Aces nv hv their limiters, they aloone can wipe out a whole city. the limiters is to limit their att so not to coz as much dmg to the surrounding
First thing that came to mind when I saw that was: "They ripped off Bleach"
I do think safety (as in, not accidentally nuking a town) plays a role as well, but from what I understood of Nanoha's explanation it's more of a jealousy thing. Kinda lame if you ask me, but meh. A series needs its plot devices after all >.>
Btw, I thought the manga stated that Hayate was SSS and Fate/Nanoha were SS? Or is it just my memory playing tricks on me?
>>1 I would think that it would take stronger limiting magic to limit Hayate as a SSS mage compared to Nanoha and Fate as SS mages. Thats how i look at it.
Because it's a shitty story plot to make the characters weaker than what they were in A's. So that they can't blow shit up in one hit, so that they aren't ultra powerful and so they can get their asses kicked too.
If we are talking about rip offs here Bleach ripped off many animes that came before it. Limiters arent anything new. Alucard had a limiter in hellsing that could only be released by Integra. Yusuke used limiter in Yu Yu Hakusho. Both of these shows where out LONG before bleach. I think its cause they TSAB cant have there 3 strongest mages walking around willy nilly without a bit a damage insurance. and its not a jelousy thing. Nanonha is mad cause shes been reduced to a powerlevel lower than when she first became a mage XD. remember Nanoha started off in season 1 as a AAA mage and now shes been reduced to AA all the way from S+.
I think you understood me wrong, lol.
It was the first thing that came up in my mind, I never said Bleach was original. But with both shows limiting Captains and Vice-Captains...
Anyway, it IS a jealousy thing. Nanoha (or was it Rein?) clearly states (at least according to DGz's translation) that high-level magi have limiters to "keep the peace in a unit". Reeks of jealousy to me.
Well meh whatever. to each there own interpretation. But Katz is sounding like what somone from triad would have said >> suspicious << haha jodan jodan ^^. call me a rabid fan boy but i have let to find anyting wrong with the series plot line so far.
Yea.. it is a jealousy thing..
each unit have to be equal in the total mage power, so if they have much more powerfull mage they must have a limiter to be like the other unit.
Aniway Why is Hayate SS and Nanoha S+ She should be stronger...
it is Nanoha show. I dont thing Hayate can stand to Nanoha with a regular device
It'd have made more sense if the limiters were there to prevent damage to their devices, can Raging Heart really deal with SSS rank magic constantly, or to prevent mages burning out, if constantly using magic bad for your linker core.
Requiring authorisation to release it seems foolish, since it becomes likely when they need it they won't be able to. There's something to be said for forcing them to practice tactics and finesse at a lower power though, as those are presumably transferable skills.
I suspect they included the release authorization thing to allow Fate and Nanoha (maybe Hayate) to kick serious ass at the end of the series.
>>it is Nanoha show. I dont thing Hayate can stand to Nanoha with a regular device
That is EXACTLY why Hayate is higher in rank than Nanoha. She has a h4x Lost Technology artifact to kick ass with. Nanoha has to make do with a standard intelligent device.
I'm not sure R-Heart is a standard device, we've never been told where Ferret-boy got the thing.
-Gabe
>>12
Actually, the only reason why Hayate is higher ranking than Nanoha is because she's taken the exams to improve her rank. And anyways, you're not ranked on skill, but leadership capabilities. Nanoha could be a private and still kick Hayate's ass in a fight, the only reason why she's a captain is because of her leadership capabilities.
Yeah...it really is a retarded reasoning. I mean I would have been much happier if they had said it was a safety kind of thing. But the whole "reduces rivalry between units" thing is just utterly retarded. It makes no sense at all. At least in this case, for people that are relatively unknown it would work, however this is an ELITE unit created for the hunting of LOST LOGIA. You need more powerful people. Nanoha is known as the Ace of Aces, I'm sure her power level of S+ is well known, as is Hayate's SS-class power level, and I'm sure Fate is similarly well known with her > S power level.
Keep in mind this is a government that retains an total ban on what we would call conventional weapons, even with AMF generating robots attacking. The "rivalry reduction" bit might just be the front, given how much this government seems to fear the great power of Lost Logia, they most likely fear on some levels very powerful magi as well. Also governments are by nature irrational.
-Gabe
Hayate took the A rank while Nanoha and Fate took the AA rank, because Hayate is more of a desk job type now, while Nanoha and Fate are out in the field.
See...your explanation actually makes sense. And I guess that it would be unlikely that Nanoha would realize that. She seems a bit too naive and unknowing of the intricacies of politics. But for some reason I seem to doubt that they actually were thinking of it in that way. I guess I'm just too cynical --;.
Some SWAT-like division with total staff of 45 (including one chibi) just doesn't need artillery or other weapons of mass
destruction. So its not about paranoid midchildian government or whatever.
And using limiters to work where you like is probably not a normal thing either. Consider it as if Nanoha was a pilot of some experimental jet fighters and then suddenly decided to work in SWAT. So much for yuri friendship ;).
Btw, that's what Shari meant with her "urawasa", contrary to Kiety/Katzbalger's translation.
2. About Hayate's SS rank
I don't like it myself, but it seems its not about devices.
In A's sound stage 3 they said that she had sequentially broken several devices they offered her in TSAB (that's about her staff, Rein2 was "born" 2 years after that).
Probably she was trained really good with YnS energy drain and got some spells from merging with it.
3. About Hayate's army rank
Thats what really needs explanation.
Somehow she's 2 ranks higher than Nanoha/Fate.
And that's including her later start in TSAB
with rehabilitation after YnS (half-year at least) etc.
So either she got higher rank right from the start
(as leader of her knights and all) either she somehow
got some connections, which is more probable seeing
how Schach calls her "knight Hayate" (so she's officially
recognized as Velka knight?) and considering
that she has Graham for parent.
RE: About limiters.
Yeah...sure that would make sense, if they were like SWAT. SWAT is basically the super-police, which takes on criminals that the normal police just can't handle. Whether it's because the criminals have weapons that are too good or whatever. They are much more like special ops. They were CREATED FOR HUNTING THE LOST LOGIA. While I doubt every Lost Logia hunt will be like the ones in A's and the first series, you really don't need to be requesting to someone that your limiter be removed when you're fighting some massive army that you DO need you WMD to take out. If you're trusting this person to hunt for the Lost Logia, some of the most feared artifacts, then you should freaking be able to trust them in when to remove their limiters.
Hayate is a higher rank because she is a leader. If you remember hayate took control of that entire space port operation at the begining of the series. She's also in charge of the whole MD06. and as far as the magical ranking. the ranking is based not on actual magical abilities but on the test you take to become that rank. What if nanoha and fate simply havent takin the test to raise to the next rank?
As far as this whole limiter thing goes, who really cares. just sit back and enjoy the show or just stop watching it.
>>In A's sound stage 3 they said that she had sequentially broken several devices they offered her in TSAB
i don't think Hayate broke the device because she is SS Rank. If the ranking goes up to SSS they should have device able to support that.. Also there must be someone somewhere who is or have be ranked SSS
> i don't think Hayate broke the device because she is SS Rank
Well, the talk there (A's Soundstage 03,track 19)
goes like this: some maintenance guys ask Hayate to
come and test two new devices they prepared for her.
Seems that Hayate has troubles with control at high
output (see strikers ep2 ;) and already broken 6 devices.
Also she's able to use both midchildian and velka-type magic
and that supposedly requires more complex device.
As for leadership, i don't sure if that's exactly the case.
At least it seems that Nanoha is leader among the trio and
its really funny how she goes instructor mode on them in the
same soundstage. So Hayate's army rank more likely has
something to do with her information processing abilities
or the like (seeing how in spaceport operation she had 4x more
info screens than Nakajima and Rein used together ;).
Now I haven't read all the posts, so I'm sorry if I repeat something. I agree with a previous statement that Hayate went to a lower mage rank b/c she's in a command position, but there is also one other thing. She's got so much bloody power on her own, that even while reduced, she still is very impressive. Also, she does have Rein to fuse with, thus improving her skills. Then there are her knights, which will almost definitely drop anything in order to save her. As or Nanoha and Fate, the power limitation would have the added benefit of forcing them to fight smarter, since they have less power to force behind their attacks.
Also, Nanoha mentioned that it would be difficult to get permission to remove the limiters, I imagine that most circumstances where any of them would need to remove them would probably lead to nothing worse than a minor reprimand if any of them did so without proper clearance.
Hayate probably took a greater limiter to allow Nanoha, Fate, Signum, and Vita to maintain a high enough magical power to fight effectively; remember, they're frontline, and she's the commander in the back.
>>Then there are her knights, which will almost definitely drop anything in order to save her.
If she's in the field, the knights will allready be there.
>>As or Nanoha and Fate, the power limitation would have the added benefit of forcing them to fight smarter, since they have less power to force behind their attacks.
They're some of the best the TSAB has, I'm pretty sure they allready fight pretty smart. The limiters dont seem to be effecting them that much in episode 5 >_>
>>Hayate probably took a greater limiter to allow Nanoha, Fate, Signum, and Vita to maintain a high enough magical power to fight effectively; remember, they're frontline, and she's the commander in the back.
Seems about right. Hayate, as the commanding officer, probably won't engage in battles as often as Fate/Nanoha, so doesn't require as high a power level.
>> i don't think Hayate broke the device because she is SS Rank
>>Hayate has troubles with control at high
>>output (see strikers ep2 ;) and already broken 6 devices.
>>Also she's able to use both midchildian and velka-type magic
>>and that supposedly requires more complex device.
So she broke the device because she use a complex type of magic and she cant control it properly.
Not because she is SS rank.
I don't deny the fack she is SS it's just, i doubt it's the reason why she broke the device
Well, it probably takes some power to burn out a device.
At least, Nanoha didn't have that kind of problems and
I don't think that RH is that unique.
The limits could also be in place to prevent lets say other members of different units from rebelling against one another which could result from jealousy.